At least six killed in Amish school shooting

[MedicCook]

At least six killed in Amish school shooting
Gunman among dead, according to state police; others wounded

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/061002/n_rita_pashooting_061002.300w.jpg

NICKEL MINES, Pa. - At least six people were killed Monday in a shooting at a one-room Amish school, the county coroner said. The identities and ages of the victims were not immediately available.

"So far six confirmed dead and the helicopters are pulling into (Lancaster General Hospital) like crazy," Lancaster County Coroner G. Gary Kirchner said.

The shooter was among the dead, state police Cpl. Ralph Striebig said. “There are also a number of wounded,” he added.

Three girls, all critical with gunshot wounds and ages 6 through 12, were admitted to Lancaster General Hospital, spokesman John Lines told NBC affiliate WGAL-TV.

WGAL-TV also reported that the shooter was an adult male who had entered the school in rural Lancaster County and started making threats.

Some people in the Amish community learned about the situation and contacted police, WGAL reported. Negotiations apparently then took place but at some point at least 10 shots were fired within the school, WGAL said. It appeared the shooter took his own life.

Two hours later, about three dozen people in traditional Amish clothing, hats and bonnets stood near the small school building speaking to one another, several young people and authorities.

At least two ambulances had left the scene, and at least one person was taken on a stretcher to a medical helicopter.

Twenty-seven students are said to have attended the private school, which teaches first through eighth grades.

The school is situated among farmlands just outside Nickel Mines, a tiny village about 55 miles west of Philadelphia.

Officials at the Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center confirmed that victims were being admitted there. A spokeswoman said the hospital anticipated more than one patient, but did not know how many.

Other recent incidents
The shooting followed reports earlier on Monday of lockdowns at two schools in the Las Vegas area.

Police and trained dogs had deployed around Mojave High and Elizondo Elementary schools in North Las Vegas, Nevada, and police were looking for an armed youth, KLAS-TV reported.

Monday’s violence followed two gun-related incidents that shook U.S. schools last week.

On Friday, a 15-year-old student fatally wounded his school’s principal in western Wisconsin. A drifter in Colorado Wednesday took six female high school students hostage, molested them and then shot one to death and killed himself as police closed in.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/?GT1=8618

[Cutesunshine]

Who would wanna shoot up a bunch of amish kids?

How pathetic is that?

[MedicCook]

I doubt that it was another Amish person. That goes against everything they believe in.

[sws4420]

Maybe Ezekiel had enough of the black clothes.

:mgunner: :blues:

[MedicCook]

Amish schoolhouse shooting claims 5th victim
Five victims in critical condition following Pa. rampage; shooter kills self

NICKEL MINES, Pa. - Two more children died Tuesday morning of wounds from the shootings at an Amish schoolhouse, raising the death toll to five girls plus the gunman who apparently was spurred by a two-decades-old grudge.

The toll from the nation’s third deadly school shooting in less than a week rose twice within a matter of hours Tuesday with the deaths of a 9-year-old girl at Christiana Hospital in Delaware and a 7-year-old girl at Penn State Children’s Hospital in Hershey.

Five additional girls were hospitalized.

The incident sent shock waves through Lancaster County’s bucolic Amish country, a picturesque landscape of horse-drawn buggies, green pastures and neat-as-a-pin farms, where violent crime is virtually nonexistent.

The Bush administration on Monday called for a school violence summit to be held next week with education and law enforcement officials to discuss possible federal action to help communities prevent violence and deal with its aftermath.

State police spokeswoman Linette Quinn said the two girls who died early Tuesday had suffered “very severe injuries, but the other ones are coming along very well.”

The 9-year-old girl died about 1 a.m., and the 7-year-old girl died about 4:30 a.m.

“Her parents were with her,” hospital spokeswoman Amy Buehler Stranges said of the 7-year-old. “She was taken off life support and she passed away shortly after.”

Authorities said the gunman, Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, wrote what authorities described as suicide notes, took guns and ammunition and went to a nearby one-room schoolhouse, where he opened fire on several girls and took his own life, authorities said.

‘No one deserves this’
Roberts, a father of three from nearby Bart Township and was not Amish, did not appear to be targeting the Amish and apparently chose the school because he was bent on killing young girls as a way of “acting out in revenge for something that happened 20 years ago,” said state police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller.

“This is a horrendous, horrific incident for the Amish community. They’re solid citizens in the community. They’re good people. They don’t deserve ... no one deserves this,” Miller said.

The names of the dead were not immediately released.

Of the injured, a 6-year-old girl remained in critical condition and a 13-year-old girl was in serious condition at Penn State Children’s Hospital, spokeswoman Buehler Stranges said. She said the names of the children were not being released.

Three girls, ages 8, 10 and 12, were flown to Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, where they were out of surgery but remained in critical condition, spokeswoman Peggy Flynn said.

‘He wanted to attack’
Roberts brought with him supplies necessary for a lengthy siege, including three guns, a stun gun, two knives, a pile of wood and a bag with 600 rounds of ammunition, police said. He also had a change of clothing, toilet paper, bolts and hardware and rolls of clear tape.

“It’s very clear to us ... he was planning to be there a while,” Miller said.

Roberts released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with infants, barred the doors with desks and wood and secured them with nails, bolts and flexible plastic ties. He then made the girls line up along a blackboard and tied their feet together.

The teacher and another adult fled to a nearby farmhouse, and authorities were called at about 10:30 a.m. Miller said Roberts apparently called his wife from a cell phone at around 11 a.m., saying he was taking revenge for an old grudge. Miller declined to say what the grudge could have been.

“It seems as though he wanted to attack young, female victims,” Miller said.

‘Angry at God’
Miller told NBC’s “Today” that Roberts lost a daughter “approximately three years ago” and that that may have been a factor in the shooting.

“We believe there are some other things that he was deeply troubled by, that perhaps on the surface were not visible to others,” he said.

Miller also said co-workers had described Roberts as becoming less social and more withdrawn until about a week ago, when “he started to relax.”

He said a teacher had to run to a farm house to call police because there wasn’t one at the school, in keeping with Amish custom.

Parents refused to fly in planes — again in keeping with Amish tradition — and had to be driven to see their children at hospitals, Miller told “Today.” Some were taken to the wrong hospitals in the confusion, Miller said.

From the suicide notes and telephone calls, it was clear Roberts was “angry at life, he was angry at God,” and co-workers said his mood had darkened in recent days, Miller said.

“The trauma on this community is almost indescribable,” he said.

‘Our hearts are broken’
In a statement released to reporters, the gunman’s wife, Marie Roberts, called her husband “loving, supportive and thoughtful.”

“He was an exceptional father,” she said. “He took the kids to soccer practice and games, played ball in the backyard and took our 7-year-old daughter shopping. He never said no when I asked him to change a diaper.”

“Our hearts are broken, our lives are shattered, and we grieve for the innocence and lives that were lost today,” she said. “Above all, please pray for the families who lost children and please pray too for our family and children.”

Similarity to earlier shooting
The attack bore similarities to a deadly school shooting last week in Bailey, Colo., but Miller said he believed the Pennsylvania attack was not a copycat crime. “I really believe this was about this individual and what was going on inside his head,” he said.

On Friday, a school principal was shot to death in Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student, described as upset over a reprimand, was charged with murder.

‘There’s no safe place’
As rescue workers and investigators tromped over the surrounding farmland, looking for evidence around this tiny village about 55 miles west of Philadelphia, dozens of people in traditional plain Amish clothing watched — the men in light-colored shirts, dark pants and broad-brimmed straw farmer’s hats, the women in bonnets and long dark dresses.

Reporters were kept away from the school after the shooting, and the Amish were reluctant to speak with the media, as is their custom.

The victims were members of the Old Order Amish. Lancaster County is home to some 20,000 Old Order Amish, who eschew automobiles, electricity, computers, fancy clothes and most other modern conveniences, live among their own people, and typically speak a German dialect known as Pennsylvania Dutch.

Bob Allen, a clerk at a bookstore in the Amish country tourist town of Intercourse, said residents see the area as being safe and the Amish as peaceful people. “It just goes to show there’s no safe place. There’s really no such thing,” he said.

Events before the shooting
The shooting took place at the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School, a neat white building set amid green fields, with a square white horse fence around the schoolyard. The school had about 25 to 30 students, ages 6 to 13.

According to investigators, Roberts walked his children to the school bus stop, then backed his truck up to the Amish school, unloaded his weapons and several pieces of lumber, and walked in around 10 a.m. He released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with babies, Miller said.

He barricaded the doors with two-by-fours and two-by-sixes nailed into place, piled-up desks and flexible plastic ties; made the remaining girls line up along a blackboard; and tied their feet together with wire ties and plastic ties, Miller said.

The teacher and another adult at the school fled to a farmhouse nearby, and someone there called 911 to report a gunman holding students hostage.

Roberts apparently called his wife around 11 a.m., saying he was taking revenge for an old grudge, Miller said. Moments later, Roberts told a dispatcher he would open fire on the children if police didn’t back away from the building. Within seconds, troopers heard gunfire. They smashed the windows to get inside, and found his body.

Miller said he had no immediate evidence that the victims were sexually assaulted.

Immediately killed were two students, and a female teacher’s aide who was 15 or 16 years old, authorities said.

No one answered the door at Roberts’ small, one-story home on Monday afternoon. Children’s toys were strewn on the porch and in the yard.

Looking at Columbine
The Pennsylvania attack was the deadliest school shooting since a teenager went on a rampage last year on an Indian reservation in Red Lake, Minn., killing 10 people in all, including five students, a teacher, a security guard and himself.

Nationwide, the 1999 Columbine High School massacre near Littleton, Colo., remains the deadliest school shooting, with 15 dead, including the two teenage gunmen.

In Pennsylvania’s insular Amish country, the outer world has intruded on occasion. In 1999, two Amish men were sent to jail for buying cocaine from a motorcycle gang and selling it to young people in their community.

There were four murders in Lancaster County in 2005, including the killings of a non-Amish couple were shot to death in their Lititz home in November by their daughter’s 18-year-old boyfriend.

Kenneth Trump, president of the National School Safety and Security Services consulting firm in Cleveland, said the Colorado and Pennsylvania crimes underscore the lesson that no school is automatically safe from an attack.

“These incidents can happen to a one-classroom schoolhouse to a large urban school,” he said. “The only thing that scares me more than an armed intruder in a school is school and safety officials who believe it can’t happen here.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15113706/

[sws4420]

They were saying on the news that he felt 'slighted' by something that happened 20 years ago. Then they asked what could happen to a 12 year old that would make him kill a bunch of people 20 years later.

Maybe he was stuck behind one of those horse-drawn carriages as a kid.

[MedicCook]

Maybe he had a thing for a little Amish girl and was not able to be with her because he was not Amish.

[sws4420]

Women are bitches.
:mgunner::britney:

[MedicCook]

Police: School killer confessed to molesting family members

(CNN) -- Pennsylvania schoolhouse killer Charles Carl Roberts IV said he molested minor family members 20 years ago and was dreaming about molesting again, police said Tuesday.

Roberts' assault Monday killed five girls and wounded five others, police said, before he killed himself. Police have been trying to determine the motive behind the attack.

"It's pretty clear to us, based on the actions that he took, that he intended to go into this school," said Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller. "Now we believe it had nothing to do with the Amish but it had to do with his victim (age) range, which was young female students ages 6 to 13. And we believe that he did not intend to come out alive."

Roberts also said he was mad at God for the death of his premature baby, Elise, born nine years ago, Miller said.

Miller said Roberts called his wife Monday morning and said, "'I am not coming home. The police are here.'"

Then Miller said Robert stated, "'I molested some minor family members, family members that were 3 or 4 years old, 20 years ago.'"

"Roberts mentioned in his suicide note that he was having dreams of molesting again," Miller said.

Police said KY jelly lubricant was found in the schoolhouse where the assault occurred but there is no evidence that the victims were sexually assaulted in any way.

Miller said both sides of Roberts' family were interviewed, including his parents, and his wife, and they said they had no knowledge of any molestation by Roberts affecting any family member or anyone else.

Two of the girls died overnight from gunshot wounds suffered in the assault by the 32-year-old truck driver on students at the tiny farmland school in southeastern Pennsylvania. At least five other girls remain hospitalized.

Co-workers said Roberts had stopped chatting and joking in recent days.

The commercial milk-truck driver lived in nearby Bart, Pennsylvania, with his wife and three children.

Roberts barricaded himself in the schoolhouse with a 9mm pistol, a shotgun and a bolt-action rifle -- and more than 600 rounds of ammunition, police said. In another sign that Roberts was prepared for a long standoff, he also brought a roll of toilet paper, police said. He had no known criminal history, said Miller. (Watch the arsenal that Roberts brought to the school -- 2:23)

During the attack, Roberts released 15 boys and three women with infants and then told remaining female students to line up in front of the blackboard, Miller said. Roberts then tied the girls' feet together, Miller said. A teacher who was released was able to alert authorities, Miller said, and police rushed to the school.

13-year-old victim's condition upgraded
Two girls critically injured in the attack died early Tuesday, hospital and state police officials told CNN. The other three victims -- two girls and a teenage aide -- died soon after the attack, Miller said. (Watch what happened in schoolhouse, community's reaction -- 2:21 )

At least five other girls remain hospitalized at two hospitals in Pennsylvania.

At Hershey Medical Center, a 6-year-old girl remained in critical condition Tuesday and a 13-year-old girl was upgraded from critical to serious condition, said hospital spokesman Sean Young.

Families of both girls were maintaining a vigil at their hospital bedsides and the 13-year-old was "exchanging non-verbal communication" or "eye-communication" with her family, said another spokesman, Matt Wayne.

"There is reason for optimism, but at the same time it would be conjecture to say she's out of the woods, so to speak," Young said.

Three patients -- ages 8, 10, and 12 -- remain in critical condition at Philadelphia's Children's Hospital, officials told CNN early Tuesday.

Wife: 'Not the Charlie I've been married to''
On Monday, a man who said he was a friend of the Roberts family, Dwight Lefever, read a statement attributed to the gunman's wife, Marie Roberts, according to CNN affiliate WGAL.

"The man that did this today was not the Charlie I've been married to for almost 10 years. My husband was loving, supportive, thoughtful. All the things you'd always want and more. He was an exceptional father," the statement said.

A White House spokesperson said the president was "deeply saddened and troubled by the recent school violence" and that the administration would convene a conference on the subject next week.

It was the nation's third deadly school shooting in a week, following the killing of a 16-year-old girl by a 53-year-old man in Bailey, Colorado, and the shooting death of a principal at a school in Madison, Wisconsin.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/03/amish.shooting/index.html

[Cutesunshine]

what a sick fuck.

[Tiffany]

I'm not trying to poke fun, I am actually seriously asking this question.
Since the amish don't believe in modern technology, how would the police have known to come to go to the school?

[MedicCook]

One of the Amish dudes ran or rode his horse to get to a location where there was a phone so someone could call 911.

[sws4420]

I'm not trying to poke fun, I am actually seriously asking this question.
Since the amish don't believe in modern technology, how would the police have known to come to go to the school?lol

I asked the same question during my last break.

One of them rode to a farmhouse to call.

[Tiffany]

So he didn't actually use the phone, he made someone else do it?

[MedicCook]

My guess is that someone else used the phone. The Amish are not completely against modern day technology though. If it means keeping a 'family' member alive they will be at the hospital.

[Tiffany]

When i was in PA eating at a Cracker Barrel or something like that with my family, a bunch of amish people came in. I've just been curious as to what they allow and do not allow. Is it still true that once you leave the "village" you may never come back?

[MedicCook]

For the most part that is still true. These are people though that do not bother anyone, they go about thier way of life, keep to themselves and all they ask is for everyone else to do the same.

[Tiffany]

Their way of life just really interests me. I'd like to visit one of their villages. I've also heard many stories about all the molestation that goes on in their villages.

[Cutesunshine]

There was a huge family of the amish people at Albany Med. Their little adorable daughter had cancer.

[Tiffany]

Are they going to do the treatments?

[Cutesunshine]

Yeah they treated her. She was there years ago. She was the cutest thing, and her family was wicked nice.

[Tiffany]

So they will use modern medical technology, but not electricity? :mellow:

[Cutesunshine]

It was the kids life. So I dunno.

[Tiffany]

But but you're supposed to know everything!! :wub:

[Cutesunshine]

The secret is revealed.

[MedicCook]

Amy, did you ever meet Madison DeGregorio duing you time at the Med? She was a little girl with cancer from Saratoga Springs.

[Cutesunshine]

i dunno. There were so many cancer kiddos there, they all started looking alike. I think there were times cam looked as bad, just yellow.

[MedicCook]

Madison died this past February. My girlfriend was very close to her. They were featured on multiple news stories. Build-a-Bear actually made a 'Madison' bear for all her classmates just before she died. Her mother is a Respiratory Therapist at Saratoga Hospital.

[MedicCook]

‘Life has to go on’ for Amish community
Spirit of forgiveness rules the day in face of school shooting tragedy

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/061003/061003_amishLife_hmed_2p.h2.jpg
An Amish woman looks out from her wagon at the scene of the school shooting in Nickel Mines, near Lancaster, Pa., on Tuesday. This Amish town showed more forgiveness than anger a day after a 32-year-old dairy truck driver stormed a one-room school and killed five girls.

NICKEL MINES, Pa. — "We don't know what God's purpose is," John told me, "but we believe there is a purpose." We were standing on the edge of a pumpkin patch.

John is an Amish man who had stepped away from a picking crew of four other men. They gently tossed each pumpkin to another worker riding on the back of a wagon pulled by a horse. No tractor. No engine.

John said he wouldn't do a television interview. The Amish believe pictures are a sign of vanity, and pictures on TV are an even worse way of indulging in the evils of the world.

But John was willing to talk about the horrible school shooting that brought so much evil to this peaceful world. "We're very concerned that no message of revenge gets out," he said. "We believe in forgiveness.”

‘Life has to go on’
My assignment was to find out how the Amish community is dealing with this unspeakable tragedy. John was one of the few members of the community who spoke openly, but only on the condition of anonymity because he did not feel comfortable being identified.

The pumpkin patch was at the bottom of a hillside where a one-room schoolhouse sat. It was just like the schoolhouse that Charles Carl Roberts besieged.

Kids were playing in the yard outside of the school, as John chatted with us. I was surprised. He wasn't. "Life has to go on, we have to pick up the pieces and go on," he said almost matter-of-factly.

Don't misunderstand John or the other members of his community. Don't let the 18th century clothes he wore, plain black slacks held up by suspenders, plain white shirt, his straight beard, and otherwise clean shaven face and straw hat, don't let that make you think for one second that he doesn't hurt, grieve or mourn.

His faith teaches him to believe all of this horror will help bring him and his neighbors closer to their God, closer to each other and closer to "the English."

The English are the rest of the surrounding community because that's the language they speak. The Amish speak a dialect of German in their homes and to each other. Not with the outside world.

Part of the community
John explained that the Amish aren't as isolated as many people apparently think. In fact, Professor Donald Kraybill, a cultural sociologist and local expert, says 60 percent of the Amish run small businesses; only 40 percent these days are traditional farmers.

They work in businesses that include woodworking, furniture making and metal manufacturing. Trade-based businesses, rather than service- or sales-based businesses, that generate in some cases $4 million to $5 million a year in revenue.

Myron Stoltzfus runs a butcher shop and deli in the village of Intercourse. He and John are neighbors and friends. Stoltzfus explained how the Amish aren't really a separate community, but rather a part of the entire community here.

I asked if he thought the shooting would change the way of life around here? "No, not at all," Stoltzfus answered without hesitation. "They believe what happened was God ordained," he said. "They don't want to be trapped by bitterness."

Technology that doesn’t impose
While the most familiar image of the Amish is a horse and buggy cracking down a long country road, Kraybill explained that many Amish people do use modern forms of technology, but "they make a big distinction between owning technology and using it."

For example, they will use electricity from a battery to power safety lights on buggies for night driving, but they won't hook up to the local power lines to use modern appliances in their home. Many will take a taxi but they won't drive a car.

Kraybill said the line is "whether the technology in some way poses a threat to their community." That's why TV, the Internet and other technologies have no place in an Amish household. And the size of their communities is growing every year.

‘God’s blessing to everyone’
Back in the pumpkin patch, the midday sun was getting hot. John had work to do. Pumpkins are a cash crop, unlike most of the corn and alfalfa in many of the fields.

John said the community is especially concerned that many of the children who were killed or wounded have young parents in their mid-20's to mid-30's. Brothers who escaped had to leave sisters behind with the gunman.

I had heard that some people from the Amish community were perhaps going to meet with Marie Roberts, the gunman's wife. John assured me that would happen soon, if it hadn't already.

"They need support, they need help," he said. "We will send them flowers." He expressed concern about how difficult it would be for the three Roberts children when they return to school.

Finally he asked me to promise to include this message in my story. "We appreciate the help and support of the police and firefighters and our neighbors. God's blessing to everyone. God has a reason for this. We don't know yet and we may not find out in our lives."

And that was OK with John. A reserved, plain-dressing, dignified Amish man, who then turned and walked to finish his work picking pumpkins with his neighbors.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15120230/

[sws4420]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be this deeply religious. The news is making them out to not even really be sad. They were just saying that the family was embalming their daughter and dressing her for burial and the parents were asking for the gunman to be saved and forgiven, all while standing over the body of the child that the scumbag took.

Maybe I'm just not that good of a person, who knows.

[MedicCook]

That is how they have lived. Everything happens for a reason and there is no reason to hold onto anger about it, because anger is self destructive.

I could never do that personally. If someone shot and killed or did anything else to hurt my children than they would need to put me in jail for the other guy's safety.