Teen Questioned for Online Bush Threats

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

http://timesunion.com/Shared/Graphics/NewsDB/AP/MYSPACE%20BUSH%20THREAT%20b1439e3e-ea0f-464c-ade9-1900241ca648.jpg
Julia Wilson, 14, left, is seen with her mother, Kirstie Wilson, outside of C.K. McClatchy High School in Sacramento, Calif., Friday, Oct. 13, 2006, two days after Secret Service agents took her out of one of her classes to question her after she posted a message threatening President Bush on the social networking site MySpace.com.

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- Upset by the war in Iraq, Julia Wilson vented her frustrations with President Bush last spring on her Web page on MySpace.com. She posted a picture of the president, scrawled "Kill Bush" across the top and drew a dagger stabbing his outstretched hand. She later replaced her page on the social-networking site after learning in her eighth-grade history class that such threats are a federal offense.

It was too late.

Federal authorities had found the page and placed Wilson on their checklist. They finally reached her this week in her molecular biology class.

The 14-year-old freshman was taken out of class Wednesday and questioned for about 15 minutes by two Secret Service agents. The incident has upset her parents, who said the agents should have included them when they questioned their daughter.

On Friday, the teenager said the agents' questioning led her to tears.

"I wasn't dangerous. I mean, look at what's (stenciled) on my backpack -- it's a heart. I'm a very peace-loving person," said Wilson, an honor student who describes herself as politically passionate. "I'm against the war in Iraq. I'm not going to kill the president."

Her mother, Kirstie Wilson, said two agents showed up at the family's home Wednesday afternoon, questioned her and promised to return once her daughter was home from school.

After they left, Kirstie Wilson sent a text message to her daughter's cell phone, telling her to come straight home: "There are two men from the secret service that want to talk with you. Apparently you made some death threats against president bush."

"Are you serious!?!? omg. Am I in a lot of trouble?" her daughter responded.

Moments later, Kirstie Wilson received another text message from her daughter saying agents had pulled her out of class.

Julia Wilson said the agents threatened her by saying she could be sent to juvenile hall for making the threat.

"They yelled at me a lot," she said. "They were unnecessarily mean."

Spokesmen for the Secret Service in Sacramento and Washington, D.C., said they could not comment on the case.

Wilson and her parents said the agents were justified in questioning her over her MySpace.com posting. But they said they believe agents went too far by not waiting until she was out of school.

They also said the agents should have more quickly figured out they weren't dealing with a real danger. Ultimately, the agents told the teen they would delete her investigation file.

Assistant Principal Paul Belluomini said the agents gave him the impression the girl's mother knew they were planning to question her daughter at school. There is no legal requirement that parents be notified.

"This has been an ongoing problem," said Ann Brick, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union in San Francisco.

Former Govs. Pete Wilson and Gray Davis vetoed bills that would have required that parents give consent or be present when their children are questioned at school by law enforcement officers. A similar bill this year cleared the state Senate but died in the Assembly.

Julia Wilson plans to post a new MySpace.com page, this one devoted to organizing other students to protest the Iraq war.

"I decided today I think I will because it (the questioning) went too far," she said.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

That's awesome. :smile:

[MedicCook]

The only problem I see is the fact they questioned this girl without her parents or a lawyer present. If she was not in school they would have had to do both. The fact that there is a loop hole that allows law enforcement to get around due process is bullshit. This girl deserved to be questioned and even scarred, but she is still a minor and deserved to have someone present for her protection and the governments protection.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

Um hello, Ryan. This is President Bush we are talking about. There are no rules applicable when it involves him. :rolleyes:

[MedicCook]

That's right I forgot that civil rights do not exist anymore. Maybe in 2008 that will change.

[sws4420]

I'm pretty sure all they had to do was ask for one of the two to be present. I'd put more blame on the school than the Secret Service.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

That's right I forgot that civil rights do not exist anymore. Maybe in 2008 that will change.
One can only hope.

[sws4420]

Well, Bush will be gone. So you should all be happy about that. Though I rarely see anyone happy with government, no matter who it is running it.

[sws4420]

I'm trying to find when this law was enacted, bu here is a copy of the wording of the law:
§ 871. Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(b) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 19 and 20.

Edit: June 1, 1955 - during the administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[MedicCook]

See I put it on the Secret Service, because they know the laws and what they are required to do. The school does not know these things. My guess is that the secret service told the school they just spoke to her mother and she said they could talk to the student. Which is partly true, minus the come back here after school and talk with her. One of those omission issues.

[sws4420]

But on the other side of things, they only spoke to her for fifteen minutes and it was at the school. It's not like they took her to an undisclosed location, strip searched her, and put one of those spotlights in her face during a 72 hour interrogation.

[MedicCook]

But she is a minor. You can not treat a minor this way without the parents agreeing to it. The mother even said she has no problem with them talking to her daughter after she gets home from school. Why could they not wait?

[sws4420]

But she is a minor. You can not treat a minor this way without the parents agreeing to it. The mother even said she has no problem with them talking to her daughter after she gets home from school. Why could they not wait?Maybe they had shit to do. Nothing came of it, so who cares?

[MedicCook]

It is another example of our government not following the laws and just doing what they want instead.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

I have to agree with Ryan on this one. There was no reason, regardless of whether or not they had shit to do, that they couldnt wait until she was out of school and with one of her parents. If a secret servicemen ever pulled one of my kids from class to question them, bet their ass they'd be hearing my mouth after it. And it says it happened on MySpace, so obviously the girls age, location and gender were obvious to them, so the question in my mind is:
Is George Bush really scared of a 14yr old girl? :huh:

I understand that 14yr olds are capable of a lot, but I dont think assassinating the fucking President, is one of them. I think they were trying to make an example of her, and they went about it the wrong way.

[MedicCook]

This is part of an on going issue in this country though. How much of our rights should we give up to protect ourselves from terrorism? And by giving up these rights that our country is built on we are letting the terrorist get what they wanted.

[trojanmiro]

lets look at everything black and white here. she made a threat against the president. by law thats illegal. they questioned her, realized it was an idle threat of no concern, released her. nothing is coming out of it. yes her mom can run her mouth that they questioned her daughter without her consent. but perhaps she coulda done a better job raising her daughter to not make such threats upon any person. most teen ideas are plagurized from their rolemodels. wich im sure includes mom on this. bottom line is that she broke the law. and is lucky she is not being fined or thrown in juvenile detention.

[trojanmiro]

This is part of an on going issue in this country though. How much of our rights should we give up to protect ourselves from terrorism? And by giving up these rights that our country is built on we are letting the terrorist get what they wanted.
this current event hasn't been provoked by 9/11. the assasinations of lincoln and jfk, who by or own people, are the reasons for such laws. i just think people like to place blame on bush for just about anything this day in age. regardless that congress has to approve everything he does, wich many democrats hold power in.

[MedicCook]

This type of failure to observe the right's of the people has increased. I will guarantee you that you will not find a law that say's if a minor makes a threat against an elected official that they are allowed to be questioned without a parent or lawyer present. You can not question an adult after they request a lawyer, why would you be able to question a minor with out one. These laws are here to protect the people and the goverment. Say they questioned this girl and decided to arrest her for these actions. Guess what, the case would have to be thrown out of court. They did not grant her a lawyer or her parents access to her during questioning, they did not merandize her, and even if they did they would have to do it infront of a lawyer or guardian to make it legal. If they followed the due process this would not have been an issue. They took the time to speak with her mother before hand, so why did they not have her meet them at the school? Our government Republicans and Democrats are taking things too far when it comes to our rights. I am more of a liberal thinking person as a whole, but I have been known to agree with certain conservative idea's. Likewise, I do not agree with all the liberal idea's out there. I look at each issues and make a descison from there.

[trojanmiro]

lets look at this play by play


"She posted a picture of the president, scrawled "Kill Bush" across the top and drew a dagger stabbing his outstretched hand. She later replaced her page on the social-networking site after learning in her eighth-grade history class that such threats are a federal offense."
she realized she broke the law and tried to correct it

"It was too late. Federal authorities had found the page and placed Wilson on their checklist. They finally reached her this week in her molecular biology class."

there was a threat against the pres. they decided to investigate it.

"The 14-year-old freshman was taken out of class Wednesday and questioned for about 15 minutes by two Secret Service agents. "I wasn't dangerous. I mean, look at what's (stenciled) on my backpack -- it's a heart. I'm a very peace-loving person," said Wilson, an honor student who describes herself as politically passionate. "I'm against the war in Iraq. I'm not going to kill the president.""
says the teen who has a vulgar image of killing the pres. with a dagger on her web page. but the heart on her back pack makes it ok


"Julia Wilson said the agents threatened her by saying she could be sent to juvenile hall for making the threat."
wich would make her lucky if she only got that much, but they let her go scot free.

"They yelled at me a lot," she said. "They were unnecessarily mean."
and was it necessary to threaten to kill someone you dont agree with?


"Wilson and her parents said the agents were justified in questioning her over her MySpace.com posting. "
exactly

"They also said the agents should have more quickly figured out they weren't dealing with a real danger. Ultimately, the agents told the teen they would delete her investigation file."
hence why they only questioned her 15 minutes, just to make her aware of her actions. and her file will be deleted.

"There is no legal requirement that parents be notified."
so what laws are they breaking?


to me it sounds like the mom influenced her daughter into hatred, and is mad because of her own actions. end of story.

this is an old law. she got caught and realized she fucked up and making it a civil liberties issue. thats all it is. they scared her to let her know she made a mistake. if something actually came of this, it would be a different story.
after interviewing the mom, and viewing the household, they just confirmed it wasnt a threat. so why waste more time to come back, so a situation that you know to be bs, but are obligated to do so by law. by going somewhere and having to come back, you are wasting real time on real terrorist. so they decided to get it over with in one shot. scare the girl, she wont do it again. end of story. be honest, if that was my parents who the ss came to visit, my dad woulda dragged me outta school himself to beat my ass. not stick up for me. thats the problem with society today. people who lack responsibility.

[MedicCook]

I agree with everything they did except questioning her with out a parent or lawyer. They were just with the mother, why did they not say we are going to talk with her right now, please come with us to the school so that we can get on with our day. That's all they needed to do. Instead they made the mother think that they were going to come back after school when they new that they were going right to the school to question her. That is the only thing I have an issue with. I think they should have actually done something to her like community service with little AIDS babies.

[Cutesunshine]

If my fucking kid made a threat against any elected official... myspace or otherwise, that I wasnt aware of... I'd tell the fucking secret service to go scare em. I however, would want pictures. I believe th ebest way of preventing a child (especially a 14 year old who is pretending to know anything about politics) is to scare the fuck out of them with a dose of reality.

[Cutesunshine]

I have a hang nail. fucking George Bush.

[Bob]

But I can slander him and make threats in an AOL chatroom and they don't bother me. Go figure.
Plus she's kinda hot in that 14yr old wayish that I shouldn't be noticing. Someone please get me laid. Apparently, I can't do it on my own.

[sws4420]

Actually, you can't. Tom got arrested for threatening him in a chatroom. It comes down to whether or not you get reported to the secret service.

He did.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

Apparently no one in this thread is understanding the fact that I dont agree with her threatening anyone, let alone the President, the only part I disagree with is how they came into her school without anyone else present, and questioned her. That is the only thing I do not agree with. If you wanna question my kid for something like that, do it, come to my house, show them any pictures you want to, say anything you want to scare them, but do NOT go into their school, remove them from class, and ask them shit, especially without myself or a teacher there.

[Cutesunshine]

I dont think we're attacking you nicole :huh:

I'm just saying that I wouldn't care. Especially if my kid did something wrong.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

Who said anything about attacking? :unsure:

I know you werent attacking me, but by the way you were all like well if that was my kid, and that girl did something wrong and yadda yadda yadda it was seeming like you thought I didnt think she should be punished at all, and thats not the case. She should be, but I dont agree with the way they handled it, thats all I meant.

[trojanmiro]

Who said anything about attacking? :unsure:

I know you werent attacking me, but by the way you were all like well if that was my kid, and that girl did something wrong and yadda yadda yadda it was seeming like you thought I didnt think she should be punished at all, and thats not the case. She should be, but I dont agree with the way they handled it, thats all I meant.
but the law wasnt broken. the principle already established that. i think a principle knows jsut about every law that handles children, since they deal with em all day. if you wanna be mad at something, then fight to make an ammendment to the law, or teach your kid not to threaten to kill anyone. end of story.

[MedicCook]

All the article said was that the school is not required to notify the parents by law. Law enforcement is required to notify parents before questioning a minor. Everyone agrees that this girl screwed up and should have been scared shitless by these secret service agents, it is the fact that they went around the normal regualtions that are used when questioning a minor in a criminal offense. If one of my children did this and a law enforcement officer went behind my back after I already told them they could talk to my kid but to wait until I was present, I would be pissed off also. I would not be defending the actions of her though. What this shows to kids is that it is bad to not follow the rules unless you work for the government and then it is ok to do whatever you want.

[Cutesunshine]

I'm actually unsure if fbi, cia and secret service have to abide by the laws of regular law officers.

[MedicCook]

I have a feeling that they do, because they all fall under the right to miranda.

[sws4420]

While it may have been preferred, it wasn't required that they be present:
McClatchy Assistant Principal Paul Belluomini said he usually does not notify parents when law enforcement officials come to school to interview students.

"Parents usually interfere with an investigation, so we usually don't notify them until it's done," he said.

Sacramento City Unified School District policy calls for parents to be notified but doesn't say whether it should happen before or after a student is interviewed. State law doesn't require parental notification.

[MedicCook]

Again that talks about what the school is required to do. I am talking about what the law enforcement officers are required to do. If an officer is questioning a minor about a criminal activity that minor has to have parent or lawyer there. There is a difference between questioning a witness and questioning a suspect. This girl was a suspect being questioned about a criminal offense.

[BeautifulDisaster - banned]

If a fucking child molestor or a murderer doesnt have to answer questions without his lawyer, and hes already done the crime, then I highly doubt a 14yr old kid who hates the President (for a pretty good reason might I add) is the exception to the rule and has to talk without anyone but the agents there.

[Cutesunshine]

I think a lawyer thing is what people want. If they're not arrested, then its not required that a parent be present.
Miranda is said when a person is arrested, not when being questioned. And being questioned is voluntary. If you choose not to answer a thing, you dont have to.

[MedicCook]

Actually I believe miranda is required when questioning someone about a criminal issue. You don't have to be under arrest to be mirandized.

[sws4420]

Q. At what point are police required to inform a suspect of their Miranda rights?

A. After a person has officially been taken into custody (detained by police), but before any interrogation takes place, police must inform them of their right to remain silent and to have an attorney present during questioning. A person is considered to be "in custody" anytime they are placed in an environment in which they do not believe they are free to leave.

Example: Police can question witnesses at crime scenes without reading them their Miranda rights, and should a witness implicate themselves in the crime during that questioning, their statements could be used against them later in court.
Q. Can police question a person without reading them their Miranda rights?

A. Yes. The Miranda warnings must be read only before questioning a person who has been taken into custody.

Q. Can police arrest or detain a person without reading them their Miranda rights?

A. Yes, but until the person has been informed of his or her Miranda rights, any statements made by them during interrogation may be ruled inadmissible in court.

Q. Does Miranda apply to all incriminating statements made to police?

A. No. Miranda does not apply to statements a person makes before they are arrested. Similarly, Miranda does not apply to statements made "spontaneously," or to statements made after the Miranda warnings have been given.

Q. If you first say you don't want a lawyer, can you still demand one during questioning?

A. Yes. A person being questioned by the police can terminate the interrogation at any time by asking for an attorney and stating that he or she declines to answer further questions until an attorney is present. However, any statements made up until that point during the interrogation may be used in court.


http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/mirandaqa.htm

[MedicCook]

Don't you think that a 14 y/o girl who was pulled out of class by Secret Service agents and placed into a room and questioned by these agents would feel like she was being detained? The other thing, was this questioning/interrogation session recorded? Most law enforcement agencies will not speak to a suspect without it being recorded for the thier own protection against this exact type of thing.

[sws4420]

Felt like, yes. But if she was as politically saavy as she was pretending to be, she should have known that she could have her lawyer present or that she could ask to leave. I think it was the right call for the Secret Service to do what they did. If things went further than a 15 minute chit-chat, I'd be right on board with you and Nicole. But they asked general questions and that was that. how many of these investigations do you think they do a year regarding this kind of thing? I bet they knew it was going to be run-of-the-mill and were done with the whole thing quick with nobody being harmed.

[MedicCook]

Most 14 y/o's do not know thier rights, and her rights may have been compromized.

[sws4420]

:horse:

May have been, sure. Nothing came of it, so it shouldn't matter. It's not like they took her away. I maintain they did nothing wrong.

[MedicCook]

:picker: