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PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 01:54 AM
VATICAN CITY (CNN) -- Pope John Paul II's body will be moved Monday to the Sala Bologna at St. Peter's Basilica, where the pontiff will lie in state until his funeral, to be held in four to six days.

Public viewing was scheduled to begin Monday, and Italian authorities said they expect 2 million people to file through the Vatican and the surrounding streets of Rome in the coming days.

As condolences poured in from around the world, plans were being laid for the pope's burial and the selection of his successor.

The first General Congregation of Cardinals was to meet Monday morning in the Apostolic Palace to decide the burial time and other details.

The Vatican has not said if John Paul left instructions for his funeral or burial. Most popes have asked to be buried below St. Peter's Basilica. But the Polish-born pope might have wanted to be laid to rest in his homeland.

Within 20 days of John Paul II's death, Catholic cardinals from across the globe will gather to participate in a sacred ritual that, for many of them, could be a once-in-a-lifetime event: the election of a pope.

Cardinal Theodore McCarrick said Sunday that John Paul "has given us a model of what a great pope would be."

Before leaving for Rome, the archbishop of Washington told reporters he "will go very humbly and wanting to learn.

"We will be open to whatever -- hopefully -- to whatever God wants," he said.

The late pope was born Karol Wojtyla in 1920 in Poland. He became pope in October 1978, the first non-Italian pontiff in 455 years.

The 84-year-old pope died from septic shock and cardiocirculatory collapse, the Vatican said Sunday.

Shortly after John Paul's death, a Vatican spokesman said the papal transition process was under way, following procedures the pontiff enacted in 1996. (Full story)

On Sunday, tens of thousands of Roman Catholic faithful gathered in St. Peter's Square to remember John Paul, while millions of others marked the pontiff's death at Masses around the world.

Cardinals, archbishops and diplomatic dignitaries solemnly filled the Sala Clementina of the Apostolic Palace to pay their respects to the pope, his body dressed in red and white papal robes with his bishop's staff under one arm.

Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the former Vatican secretary of state and a possible papal successor, said he was at the pope's bedside as he died Saturday. He told mourners his longtime friend -- the spiritual leader of more than 1 billion Catholics worldwide -- "died with the serenity of the saints."

"We entrust with confidence to the risen Christ, Lord of life and history, our beloved John Paul II who for 27 years guided the universal church as the successor of Peter," he told a shoulder-to-shoulder crowd in St. Peter's Square in the first of nine elaborate Masses marking the pope's death.

The pope's condition began deteriorating rapidly Thursday, after a urinary tract infection caused a high fever. He suffered from a number of chronic illnesses, including crippling hip and knee ailments and Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder.

"Pope John Paul has finished the course, has run the race, has kept the faith," said Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, at Westminster Cathedral in London. "Farewell, Pope John Paul, as the thoughts, the memories and the prayers of the world and of all Christian people go with you."

Pope mourned worldwide
John Paul traveled widely and reached out to other faiths during his 26-year papacy, and condolences echoed across the globe Sunday.

"He was a poet, a philosopher, an athlete, a linguist, a mystic, a man with deep loyalties and lasting friendships, a priest who laid down his life for his flock," Boston Archbishop Sean O'Malley told mourners at that city's Cathedral of the Holy Cross. The pope visited the cathedral on his first papal trip to the United States in 1979.

Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel told CNN that John Paul "will have a very important place in Jewish history" as the first pope to visit a synagogue. The pontiff apologized for previous persecution of Jews by the church and for the Vatican's failure to do more to prevent the Holocaust.

"Never have the relations between Jews and Catholics been as good," Wiesel said.

The Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, said in a written statement that he had "deep appreciation for the pope's mission to bring peace to the world.

"In spite of increasing age and declining physical health, his relentless efforts to visit different parts of the world and meet the people who lived there to promote harmony and spiritual values, exemplified not only his deep concern but also the courage he brought to fulfilling it."

The pope is credited with contributing to the collapse of communist rule in his homeland and across the Soviet bloc.

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev said Sunday that the pontiff once told him, "Europe must breathe with both its lungs." (Full story)

"I mourn his loss," Gorbachev said. "His devotion to his followers is a remarkable example to all of us." (More world reaction)

Throughout his papacy, conservatives supported his stances on traditional positions on the role of women in the church and its opposition to birth control, abortion and euthanasia. Liberal Catholics praised his opposition to capital punishment, his calls for more aid to the poor and his criticism of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Raymond Flynn, the former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, said John Paul spoke "for the teaching of the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ, rather than try to accommodate a political party or try to be politically popular or try to be liberal or try to be conservative.

"Even though people disagreed with him, they respected him," Flynn said on NBC's "Meet the Press."


2 million people expected to visit. That is huge for a funeral. Wow. :unsure:

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 02:13 AM
Earlier on cnn.com they had a pic of his body, just laying there on a table thingy. That just freaked me out. He has on a red robe and kind of looked like santa. After seeing my father laying in his coffin, the site of dead people freaks me out.

RIP
Yeah. Its weird. When it first happened, I was upset, so I went down to the church down the road from our apartment, and paid my respects, when I walked in they had a huge picture of him on an easil (sp?) and a lot of people were there just praying. But as I was leaving, I thought about how long he had lived and all of the things he had accompolished in his life, so that made him passing seem "not so bad".
Seeing him doesnt freak me out though, he just looks like hes peacefully sleeping.

RIP :pope2:

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 02:38 AM
Now im wondering if they will make him a Saint.
Im pretty sure he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in Feb too, they dont announce the winners until October, but a posthumous award is not allowed by the Statutes... :sad:

Mikey
04-04-2005, 11:33 AM
yeah i first caught a glimpse of him resting on a table was yesterday when they were doing the holy water on him. He did look very peaceful. I hope he does get the sainthood and the noble peace prize...he deserves it

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:16 PM
I doubt he'll be made a saint.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 12:19 PM
true but you never know

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 12:19 PM
i may be wrong on this, but its the average saint declared one like a 100 years after they die?

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:22 PM
i may be wrong on this, but its the average saint declared one like a 100 years after they die?
No. There's a process that has to happen first.

Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim. Though this was a more democratic way to recognize saints, some saints’ stories were distorted by legend and some supposed saints never existed. Gradually, the bishops and finally the Vatican took over authority for "approving" saints.

In 1983, Pope John Paul II made sweeping changes in the canonization procedure. The process begins after the death of a Catholic whom people regard as holy. Often, the process starts many years after death in order give perspective on the candidate. The local bishop investigates the candidate’s life and writings for heroic virtue (or martyrdom) and orthodoxy of doctrine. Then a panel of theologians at the Vatican evaluates the candidate. Upon the recommendation of the panel and cardinals of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, the pope proclaims the candidate "venerable."

The next step, beatification, requires evidence of one miracle (except in the case of martyrs). Since miracles are considered proof that the person is in heaven and can intercede for us, the miracle must take place after the candidate’s death and as a result of a specific petition to the candidate. When the pope proclaims the candidate beatified or "blessed," the person can be venerated by a particular region or group of people for whom the person holds special importance.

After one more miracle the pope will canonize the saint (this includes martyrs as well). The title of saint tells us that the person lived a holy life, is in heaven, and is to be honored by the universal Church. Canonization does not "make" a person a saint; it recognizes what God has already done.

Though canonization is infallible and irrevocable, it takes a long time and a lot of effort. So while every person who is canonized is a saint, not every holy person has been canonized. You have probably known many "saints" in your life, and you are called by God to be one yourself. (Some Information courtesy of Catholic-On-Line.)

Mikey
04-04-2005, 12:23 PM
ugh....another process

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:24 PM
Yeah. Damn organization and tradition. Maybe they should just ask the magic 8 ball instead.

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:29 PM
Holy shit. They're parading the Pope around the square and it looks like he's gonna fall of his table.

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 12:40 PM
that fucker had to start to get heavy with as far as they had to carry him.

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:41 PM
How much do you think he could possibly weigh? There's quite a few guys carrying him.

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 12:44 PM
prolly like 250-300 with all the accessories. if you hold a bowling ball up in the air long enough its gonna get heavy. they paraeded him for like a half hour.

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 12:45 PM
isnt it considered unholy for cameras to be in a church? i remember some churches that wont allow you to photograph inside the church at weddings and stuff.

sws4420
04-04-2005, 12:46 PM
I don't think Jesus had a rule for cameras.

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 12:48 PM
back then he may have had a rule for slate and chissels in church

snobord447
04-04-2005, 12:59 PM
isnt it considered unholy for cameras to be in a church? i remember some churches that wont allow you to photograph inside the church at weddings and stuff.

It's got to do with the flash, I know most churches you can take pictures without the flash, something about the repetive bright lights damaging materials or something...?

Mikey
04-04-2005, 01:45 PM
yeah it's like that in art galleries, u can't use the flash cause it will destroy the artwork....so i'm guessing it would rune the stuff on the walls there in the church

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 03:00 PM
i got fucking yelled at before for pointing to a painting in the metropolitan museum of fine art down in nyc. fucking cry babies.

sws4420
04-04-2005, 04:23 PM
I was watching the news this morning and they said that the Pope would be buried beneath St. Peters Basilica. But the strange practice they were talking about was that he'll be buried in a series of 3 caskets.

The casket that his actual body will be placed in is made of Cyprus, which represents his goodness. That casket will then be placed into another casket made of lead with a skull and crossbones engraved on the cover. Finally, those two caskets will be placed into a third casket made of either Elm or Oak and on the cover of that will be a gold plaque with all significant dates of his religious life engraved into it. The dates will include the dates of his birth, communion, when he became bishop, when he became cardinal, when he became pope, and his death.

I dunno. I found the segment interesting as hell.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 04:28 PM
yeah that is quite interesting...i heard that he also might be have been buried in his native land poland

sws4420
04-04-2005, 04:30 PM
They talked about that, but the guy who was doing the segment said that once he becomes Pope, it's understood that he becomes property of the Catholic religion.

dan
04-04-2005, 04:31 PM
They talked about that, but the guy who was doing the segment said that once he becomes Pope, it's understood that he becomes property of the Catholic religion.

Just like Jesus.

WWJD.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 04:39 PM
ahhhhhhhhh ok....didn't know that

trojanmiro
04-04-2005, 04:57 PM
wwjd?

Mikey
04-04-2005, 05:00 PM
what would jesus do....i think that's what it means

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 07:48 PM
it could mean that, but I dunno.

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 08:01 PM
I think they now show every famous person there is.
I personally think all dead people look horrible. And I love it when old ladies say "she/he looked so good" no... they fucking didnt, They're dead.
He's got so many pillows under his head cause of the osteoporosis had his back all hunched over. They probably didnt want to break his back to lie him flat. Poor pope.

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 08:07 PM
Yeah he was adorable... till the poor guy suffered from parkinson's. 84 is so young.

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 08:15 PM
Compared to some, I think he looks great for being deceased. He just looks like hes sleeping. And yes, he was an adorable man.

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 08:16 PM
wwjd?
What Would Josie Do* :biglaff:

edit: yes, mikeys right. its what would Jesus do*

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 08:19 PM
I dont think he looks like he's sleeping... Ever see an old man sleep? Its not with their mouth closed I can tell ya that much.
The sewn closed mouth, and the off color of his skin make him look bad.

Edit: He's dead tho, so what should I expect.

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 08:20 PM
I dont think he looks like he's sleeping... Ever see an old man sleep? Its not with their mouth closed I can tell ya that much.
The sewn closed mouth, and the off color of his skin make him look bad.

Edit: He's dead tho, so what should I expect.
Yeah I understand that, Im just saying, compared to some ive seen, including my Grandfather, he looks pretty damn good for being dead.

mb*
04-04-2005, 08:46 PM
http://today.reuters.com/pictures/galleries/Stories/632482272545221638/Previews/X800030020050403e143001gx.jpg


http://today.reuters.com/Pictures/galleries/Stories/632176283649218750/Previews/X900290020050404e14400001-.jpg


http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/mdf919042.jpg


mindy, please don't be offended i posted these, even tho you just said you hated seeing the pics, but i was very interested in seeing these pictures.



i think they reason they were taken, and broadcasted, are because there are those that would have really liked to be at the viewing and couldn't.



he does look like santa tho. :huh:

Mikey
04-04-2005, 08:52 PM
he looks like he's constapated in some of those pics...but he does look at peace though. He was a good man

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 08:53 PM
he looks like he's constapated in some of those pics...but he does look at peace though. He was a good man
:unsure:

Mikey
04-04-2005, 08:55 PM
what...he does in one of those pics mb posted. But overall he looks like he's at peace.

PhatBottomGirly
04-04-2005, 08:57 PM
what...he does in one of those pics mb posted. But overall he looks like he's at peace.
:unsure:

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 09:02 PM
I dunno dude... I think he looks horrible. Maybe reds not his color.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 09:09 PM
maybe amy, but i'm thinking maybe that's a tradition to put them in red...what's that face for nicole????

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 09:10 PM
*shrugs*

we so need a shrugging smilie.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 09:11 PM
:smile: ....is this good?

mb*
04-04-2005, 09:17 PM
:smile: ....is this good?

no. that looks nothing like a shrug. :biglaff:

Mikey
04-04-2005, 09:18 PM
well she said a shugging smile mb....so i'm giving her a smile instead

Cutesunshine
04-04-2005, 09:19 PM
I'll never have a shrugging smilie..


Back on topic... Yes, The pope looks dead.

Mikey
04-04-2005, 09:20 PM
i saw on the news tonight about some girl help the pope from being killed...i thought it was very touching