Calif. Court: Would-be Good Samaritan can be sued

[MedicCook]

Calif. Court: Would-be Good Samaritan can be sued

LOS ANGELES – Proving that no good deed goes unpunished, the state's high court on Thursday said a would-be Good Samaritan accused of rendering her friend paraplegic by pulling her from a wrecked car "like a rag doll" can be sued.

California's Supreme Court ruled that the state's Good Samaritan law only protects people from liability if the are administering emergency medical care, and that Lisa Torti's attempted rescue of her friend didn't qualify.

Justice Carlos Moreno wrote for a unanimous court that a person is not obligated to come to someone's aid.

"If, however, a person elects to come to someone's aid, he or she has a duty to exercise due care," he wrote.

Torti had argued that she should still be protected from a lawsuit because she was giving "medical care" when she pulled her friend from a car wreck.

Alexandra Van Horn was in the front passenger seat of a car that slammed into a light pole at 45 mph on Nov. 1, 2004, according to her negligence lawsuit.

Torti was a passenger in a car that was following behind the vehicle and stopped after the crash. Torti said when she came across the wreck she feared the car was going to explode and pulled Van Horn out. Van Horn testified that Torti pulled her out of the wreckage "like a rag doll." Van Horn blamed her friend for her paralysis.

Whether Torti is ultimately liable is still to be determined, but Van Horn's lawsuit can go forward, the Supreme Court ruled.

Beverly Hills lawyer Robert Hutchinson, who represented Van Horn, said he's pleased with the ruling.

Torti's attorney, Ronald Kent, of Los Angeles didn't immediately return a telephone call.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081218/ap_on_re_us/samaritan_protection

[Thomas the Solitary]

Jeeze. What a horrible situation.

That's about all I can say about that.

[MedicCook]

This officially marks the end of the good samaritan. There have been attempts against the good samaritan law over the years and they always get tossed because of the trickle down effect it would have on this county. Since the law has been breached I would never recommend anyone to risk themselves to help out a fellow person in distress. What is the next, you getting sued for breaking some guy's ribs during CPR. Who gives a fuck that he was dead and he is now alive, he is going to be allowed to sue you. Fuck that shit.

[Thomas the Solitary]

That would never stop me. Never. I would still do what I thought was necessary at the time.

And I would fight my way past anybody that felt they needed to get in my way.

I know this for a fact. Someone had their foot ran over with a hi-lo at work, and he sat there on a pile of stock, took his sock off... big toe dripping large dollops of bright crimson onto the harsh concrete floor.

The guy in charge at that point (that was during the time I had been replaced by one of my former employee's as 2nd Lead) stood there, mouth agape, holding his hands up saying "I don't know where the forms are, I don't know how to do the paperwork"...

and I lost it. I really did. That's the kind of bullshit that I just can't stand.

It ended well enough, though. Mr. Team Lead got his head out of his ass just as soon as I started to help the guy up and out the door. Without permission, of course. Fuck that. The dude needed help.

(that was Brenton, by the way.)

[Thomas the Solitary]

And the sad fact is, I know there are people on here that will not take that seriously. Or they'll think it happened the other way around.

When I'm up and not depressed like I've been for the last couple of weeks or three, I really am a different person.

Then again, it happened at work and that's one of my safe places, you know? so there's that.

[trojanmiro]

this actually makes me think of something that happened not too long ago in troy. im not close friends with the people involved.... but i do run into them time to time, we share a same circle of close friends.

anyways..... a cabbie was dropping off a fair one night and got stabbed in the neck. as he pulled away he ran into on of "my friends" cars and set off the alarm. this all happened in fron of their house. one guy was having a party. they all ran outside. one guy went up to the cab and saw the blood squirting out of his neck. he went to help him and another person there said dont. he basically told him he doesnt know what he is doing and could be sued if he touches him. so all the guy did was reach in the car and shut his engine off while the guy bleed out through his neck. they did call 911 but im sure ryan knows anyone with a cut jugular doesnt even have the response time. not with any assistance at all anyways.

so anyways..... i never had the balls to actually say anything to them.... but i have been at a party with these people before.... and the story i type is straight out of their mouth. what pisses me off is the guy used to live behind me in a small apartment. he actually lived in the apartment i used to live in before i moved in with a friend who had the larger pad. his kid used to knock on my door and ask if i would let my dog out so they could play.

regardless of the history of the guy formerly being a neighbor of mine..... i was thinking about it as these guys told me the story. there is no way in hell i could actually watch a guy bleed to death with blood squirting from his neck without atleast trying to help him. i dont know shit about first aid or anything but i would have atleast tried to keep pressure on the wound. i really dont think the thought of being sued woulda came into mind. im nearly positive i woulda made my possibly feeble attempts to help till help arrived.

but yeah.... stories like what was posted lead to stories like what i posted.

[MedicCook]

The way the Good Samaritan Laws are written breaks down to this:

No person shall be held liable when rendering aid as long as they do not perform an act of gross negligence. The way the courts have always looked at these matters is, did the person rendering aid act as any other person would in a similar situation.

The article is a perfect example of a good samaritan doing what any other person who has no training would do. If you saw a car accident and you felt that the car was in danger of catching on fire would you leave the person in the car or do what you could to get them out of the car?

It is known as life before limb. CPR & First Aid training has changed over the years to the life before limb way.

Here is an example of the differences between a trained provider (EMT) and a lay rescuer (good samaritan).

Person falls off the roof and is unconscious. You need to check the ABC's (Airway, Breathing, Circulation). If the person does not have an open airway (A) then they are not going to be able to breath (B) and if they do not breath then 'C' does not really matter.
This is how an EMT would open the airway of a trauma patient:
The EMT would perform what is called a Jaw Thrust, this manuever opens the airway passage by displacing the jaw forward without tilting the neck or compromising the spine in case of a possible spinal injury.

This is not an easy skill to learn and is no longer taught to lay providers. If you are taking a CPR or First Aid course you are taught to open the airway of every unconscious person using the Head Tilt-Chin Lift method. The name is self explanatory and you can figure out that the neck and spine are going to be compromised by using this method.

It goes back to life before limb.

A lay provider will take too long to go through the steps because it is not what they have been trained to do everyday so they simplified it to make it easier and provide the most important treatement which is CPR.

If they start to allow the good samaritan law to be breached like this way why should anyone offer assistance to a stranger in need? You help them, they now can sue you and you and your family are the ones to suffer all because you wanted to help out a fellow human being. That was why these laws were put into place to being with to get people helping each other with threat of civil liability.

[Thomas the Solitary]

but yeah.... stories like what was posted lead to stories like what i posted.

This line worries me, but I'll leave it be. For now.

[Cutesunshine]

I'm kinda selective as to who I help. I'll help an old person who falls, a friend in need... and thats about the extent of it. People are lawsuit greedy, and it's only a matter of time before that good sam law falls apart. I also dont carry gloves or anything with me... and there's quite a lot of funk out there. I will however always call 911, and stay with the person till someone arrives.

Sounds horrible, especially coming from a nurse. It's not the same world as it was 10 years ago.

The only story of my own that I can relate this to is when my mom and I got bumped head on in the hood in Albany. Guy coming at us was having a seizure while he was driving, slammed into the bridge sides twice before nailing us. First thing I did was check Cameron, then I called 911, then I walked over to make sure he was okay. He was still seizing, drool all over, so naturally I didnt touch him, but turned the car off... Stayed till the Paramedic got there, went to my moms car and called the docs office to tell em we'd be late. I dont think you can ever be too cautious...

[Thomas the Solitary]

I actually do carry latex gloves with me in the truck. For a completely different reason, though... I work with paper and the gloves help with the gription. Sort of like an old school secretary with their little dish of qwik-sort, know what I mean? Paper will dry out the hands and you loose the ability to grab it consistently. A pair of latex gloves really work well for that. (and work refuses to buy them for us.)

But, having like no training, I'd never be able to do anything serious. I'd probably take my shirt off to apply pressure to the neck wound Mike was talking about, maybe use my belt to try to cinch it tight or something... but I don't know about that because then I might end up choking the poor dude to death.

Dunno. Sometimes you just don't know exactly what you'd do untill you're face to face with a situation.

[trojanmiro]

This line worries me, but I'll leave it be. For now.

all i was referring to was the fact that they were gonna attempt to help the guy until someone warned them that they could be liable if they intervene. like the original post, its a story like that, a good samartin getting sued that prevents what some people would normally have done without a second thought.

[sws4420]

It was sort of stupid of them to do nothing. All they had to do was make sure they didn't cause him any further harm by like stabbing him again or something.

[trojanmiro]

It was sort of stupid of them to do nothing. All they had to do was make sure they didn't cause him any further harm by like stabbing him again or something.

i agree..... but i imagine you walking up on a scene like that and unless you are trained for it it kinda puts you in a state of shock emotionally. im assuming its that and the heresay things they have heard about the liability issue. kinda like so much going on its overwhelming.

[Thomas the Solitary]

i agree..... but i imagine you walking up on a scene like that and unless you are trained for it it kinda puts you in a state of shock emotionally. im assuming its that and the heresay things they have heard about the liability issue. kinda like so much going on its overwhelming.
Hmmm. I don't seem to have that problem, at first.

Take, for instance, if the truck were to start sliding out of control. I don't loose it, I control it. All my emotions take a back seat to handling the situation at hand.

AFTER, however, then it starts to hit me what exactly just happened.

This would be applicable for small instances, short time frame.

Now, big, long running issues, that can get tricky. I'm not exactly sure how I would handle being in a state of constant ... "too much". I'd probably shut down and remove myself from the situation. Until at which point I was able to continue. Or, if that's not an option, I'd have a meltdown. Plain and simple.

But, here I am being all self-centered again.

[Jimmerz]

yet another stupid fucking idea, i heard they were looking at changing it so you couldnt sue a good semaritan, i hope they protect people that do good things in terrible situations only because if we punish those who do good then we truly have lost what it means to be an american..

i would hope that if my life the life of my wife or daughter were to hang in the ballence and some stranger could just come along and give a life saving act be it cpr or a full fledged rescue of some kind that they would be protected from being sued, i would rather somone try then to just pass me by and say eh fuckem. i would stop and still stop for every car i see broken down even though i know my life could very well be in danger i still do it because what if that person does not have a cellular phone, onstar, or some other form of communication? or cell service...i know i would want somone to stop and ask me if i was alright.. somtimes i get thankyous and somtimes i get nothing but a strange look.. but sueing somnone that saves your life is a really ballsy move.. arrogant and extreemly ungreatfull

[MedicCook]

yet another stupid fucking idea, i heard they were looking at changing it so you couldnt sue a good semaritan, i hope they protect people that do good things in terrible situations only because if we punish those who do good then we truly have lost what it means to be an american..

It has always been the case that the court would not allow a person to sue a good samaritan for helping out someone in need unless gross negligence occurred. Gross negligence is not an easy thing to do either. It requires that they prove what you did you did out of malice to the person. Like instead of doing CPR compressions you decided to jump up and down on the guys chest instead. That is gross negligence.