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trojanmiro
03-08-2010, 10:25 AM
Friend --

Last Thursday's first-of-its-kind summit capped off a debate that has lasted nearly a year. Every idea has now been put on the table. Every argument has been made. Both parties agree that the status quo is unacceptable and gets more dire each day. Today, I want to state as clearly and forcefully as I know how: Now is the time to make a decision about the future of health care in America.

The final proposal I've put forward draws on the best ideas from all sides, including several put forward by Republicans at last week's summit. It will put Americans in charge of their own health care, ensuring that neither government nor insurance company bureaucrats can ration, deny, or put out of financial reach the care our families need and deserve.

I strongly believe that Congress now owes the American people a final vote on health care reform. Reform has already passed the House with bipartisan support and the Senate with a super-majority of sixty votes. Now it deserves the same kind of up-or-down vote that has been routinely used and has passed such landmark measures as welfare reform and both Bush tax cuts.

Earlier today, I asked leaders in both houses of Congress to finish their work and schedule a vote in the next few weeks. From now until then, I will do everything in my power to make the case for reform. And now, I'm asking you, the members of the Organizing for America community, to raise your voice and do the same.

The final march for reform has begun, and your participation is crucial. Please commit to join with me to take reform across the finish line.

Essentially, my proposal would change three things about the current health care system:

First, it would protect all Americans from the worst practices of insurance companies. Never again will the mother with breast cancer have her coverage revoked, see her premiums arbitrarily raised, or be forced to live in fear that a pre-existing condition will bar her from future coverage.

Second, my proposal would give individuals and small businesses the same choice of private health insurance that members of Congress get for themselves. And my proposal says that if you still can't afford the insurance in this new marketplace, we will offer you tax credits based on your income -- tax credits that add up to the largest middle class tax cut for health care in history.

Finally, my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for everyone -- families, businesses, and the federal government -- and bring down our deficit by as much as $1 trillion over the next two decades. These savings mean businesses small and large will finally be freed up to create jobs and increase wages. With costs currently skyrocketing, reform is vital to remaining economically strong in the years and decades to come.

In the few crucial weeks ahead, you can help make sure this proposal becomes law. Please sign up to join the Organizing for America campaign in the final march for reform:

http://my.barackobama.com/commit

When I talked about change on the campaign, this is what I was talking about: coming together to solve a huge problem that has been troubling America for 100 years and standing up to the special interests to deliver a brighter, smarter future for generations to come.

I look forward to signing this historic reform into law. And when I do, it will be because your organizing played an essential role in making change possible.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama

sws4420
03-08-2010, 11:27 AM
He's so fucking arrogant. All arguments have been made? Really now?

1.) The plan includes people it shouldn't.
2.) It's too far-reaching.
3.) We can't afford it.
4.) The plan includes none of the basic reforms needed to tweak the current system, only to completely overhaul it.

Fuck him.

trojanmiro
03-08-2010, 11:58 AM
i would like to see more detail on how it would cut down the deficit, but other then that i like the overall proposal.

sws4420
03-08-2010, 12:04 PM
You can't raise spending by the $X trillion that he wants to and cut the deficit. His brilliant idea to tax the rich will actually end up in less revenue, causing him to tax the middle class, which won't help either. There isn't enough money in existance to do what he wants. The idea is fine. The realistic implementation of it is impossible and unsustainable.

Dave
03-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Obama is currently speaking in a town-hall style meeting in Pennsylvania on this topic. There is a link to watch it live on www.msnbc.com.

sws4420
03-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Is it out of his mouth, or out of his ass?

Dave
03-08-2010, 12:12 PM
Is there a difference?

sws4420
03-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Not really. I just thought maybe he was cutting out the middle man and actually just talking out his buttcheeks.

Dave
03-08-2010, 05:53 PM
Understood.

trojanmiro
03-08-2010, 08:15 PM
atleast obama is trying to do something, most republicans just continue to ignore the issue. they would rather scare the public and throw out terms of socialis and communism and make comparisons to hitler to scare the american public rather then put forth any ideas that might actually contribute to the debate.

i find it truly absurd how one dimensional people think when it comes to party lines instead of actually using their mind to create an objective that would benefit all of american people.

sws4420
03-08-2010, 08:45 PM
I had a huge fucking answer to that post and I got some stupid error when I submitted it. Fuck.

I'll type it out later.

sws4420
03-08-2010, 09:38 PM
atleast obama is trying to do something, most republicans just continue to ignore the issue. they would rather scare the public and throw out terms of socialis and communism and make comparisons to hitler to scare the american public rather then put forth any ideas that might actually contribute to the debate.I don't have a problem with the fact that he's acting on the problem, but how he'd like to act on the problem. His solutions to the problems are socialistic and communistic - that's why the labels are being applied. Ideas have been put forth by the Republicans, and handily ignored by the Democrats because the ideas aren't in the best interest of their party. Tort reform would reduce the amount of money that could be won in lawsuits, thus lowering malpractice premiums, thus reducing healthcare costs. The problem with this is that there are too many Democrats that are trial lawyers or are heavily supported by trial lawyers and it would be political suicide. Former Senator John Edwards, for example, has won hundreds of millions of dollars for himself on the backs of insurance companies. Howard Dean has even openly admitted this is a huge reason this is not on the healthcare reform agenda. He doesn't want to make too many enemies at a time, he says.

Removing the restrictions on interstate competition of insurance companies would reduce the cost of insurance to the consumer, making it more affordable. People would be able to choose from a much broader selection of insurance providers and a broader selection of price ranges that suit their needs.

Obama is a blatant liar when he states the need for this overhaul. At first he claimed that there were 45 million people in the country that were uninsured. That is, until his numbers were blown out of the water by the big evil Republicans.
Breakdown of the 45 million people, which overlap:
- 17 million, or 38%, of those make $50k or more per year, making them most likely able to afford health insurance. 9 million of those make more than $75k a year. If they make that much money a year and don't spend it to take care of themselves, why should the rest of the country be charged with taking care of them?
- 18 million, or 40%, are called the invincibles. These are people ages 18 - 34 who don't spend the money on healthcare because they don't feel they need it. They spend far more on alcohol, tobacco, entertainment, and dining out than they do on taking care of themselves.
- 14 million, or 31%, are already eligible for existing healthcare programs and simply aren't enrolled.
- 12 million of those aren't even American citizens. They're illegal immigrants.

So here we are with around 8 million people in the country that are genuinely uninsured. So what he's saying, is that he wants to change the entire healthcare system so that he can provide healthcare to 3% - 4% of the country that doesn't have coverage? That makes sense to you?


Now, it's important that we get health care to those 4%, of course. But is it really necessary to rip apart the health care system we currently have to do it? Yes, we all want better coverage that's more affordable and easier to navigate. Obamacare doesn't solve any of these. All it does is help less than 4% of the country get health insurance, while putting the rest of us through a tangled maze of bureaucracy, for worse care that costs just as much, maybe more. The long-term effects are even more frightening, but in the short term do we really want to penalize the many in favor of the (very) few?


i find it truly absurd how one dimensional people think when it comes to party lines instead of actually using their mind to create an objective that would benefit all of american people.

I agree, though that comment applies to Democrats more than it does anyone else. When Bush was President, passing legislation by reconciliation was frowned upon by Obama, Biden, and countless other Democrats. Now that they're in power, it's a sensible move to make. Obama claimed all of this would be televised, giving people the opportunity to see who was proposing what. That never happened. Bills are being voted on before they're even printed.

Fucking asinine.

trojanmiro
03-08-2010, 11:08 PM
this health care reform goes beyond those that are simply uninsured, but also includes regulation of existing policies. expanding insurancy policies to beyond state means. in the end, this is beneficial to everyone. i truly believe that obama has stretched across party lines as much as possible. but due to party alliance instead of becoming bipartisan they would rather just reject the idea entirely. healthcare needs reform. and rather then bitching about how wrong obamas plan is, when not one of them has come up with a plan that would be better, they just simply toss stones.

sws4420
03-09-2010, 12:14 AM
You're right. It penalizes those that don't purchase acceptable insurance. Right now, I have the right to not have insurance. Under Obamacare, I'd pay a penalty if I didn't purchase what the administration outlines as an acceptable policy. Again, tweaking the system makes a lot more sense than this clusterfuck. Pick out the parts that are unacceptable and address them. That's the proper way to repair something.

On the surface, Obama has reached across party lines. In actuality, he's ignored everything that's been proposed. That 'summit' he had a couple weeks back was a publicity stunt to make it look like he was trying to be bipartisan. He accused one congressman of bringing a prop with him to the meeting. What was the prop? The 2300+ page bill that was being rammed up the asses of the American people. How is that a prop? This coming from the guy who has the White House pass out lab coats to doctors he's around to make it look like the medical community is behind what he's trying to do.

As far as party alliance, not even all Democrats are on board with this, which is why it hasn't passed yet. Obama has gone so far as to purchase the votes he's received so far. Check out the sweet deals Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu have secured for Nebraska and Louisiana. The Democrats should be embarrassed of themselves to be whoring themselves out in this manner to get a bill passed.

The Republicans have submitted solutions to the issues plaguing the healthcare system, and they've been ignored. That's a fact. Accepting proposals from the Republicans doesn't make him someone who is working toward a common good when none of those proposals make it into the proposed legislation. That makes it a publicity stunt.

MedicCook
03-09-2010, 12:59 AM
This came to mind for some reason.

6DrRE1LDY_U

Back to your regularly scheduled debate.

Dave
03-09-2010, 11:51 AM
My health insurance is just fine as it is. I'm not sure any changes that are proposed would actually benefit me. Hopefully, what I currently have doesn't get compromised or make my rates go up to pay for those that can't afford/choose not to get health insurance. Call me selfish, but I'm not a fan of paying to support someone else.

sws4420
03-09-2010, 11:56 AM
You live in NY. You already do.

Dave
03-09-2010, 12:28 PM
I realize that. I simply don't want to have to pay MORE.

MedicCook
03-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Are they still looking at taxing people who have their own health insurance?

sws4420
03-09-2010, 01:09 PM
Of course. But think about it, it's not something they can just come out and say up front because nobody will support it. They'll do their best to get the legislation passed, then ease into the, "Oh, this costs more than we thought it would. We need a tax hike." Once entitlement programs are put into place, they never go away.